Sunday, March 9, 2014

Object's Resources on Lap Dancing, Not Really Improving

So this week saw an interesting turn of events when Object decided to re-promote themselves via Mumsnet by writing a piece about the Channel 4 programme Strippers. Now I am not going to write about the programme as the superb Plastic Dolls Head blog has written about them here and here and as a former dancer the blog has great validity talking from inside the real world rather than the fantasy that Object thinks exists. What I do want to discuss is the result of Object posting on Mumsnet.

Well the usual attitude from the usual crowd so I wasn't expecting much, however a liberal feminist who is on Mumsnet, and has a neighbour who is a dancer, also posts in the feminist section of Mumsnet decided to ask a question. Sausage (screen name) has swapped e-mails with myself and reads the blog so when Object tried to big themselves up she asked why there was still dead links on their lap dancing resources page including the dead Lilith report. Now I tweeted etc at Object back at the beginning of August 2013 about the issues with their page and surprise surprise I was ignored. If does seem though that if the feminist section of Mumsnet ask questions then finally a response in that they have updated their page twice in the last 4 days. The first time they deleted the Lilith report from their resources as it does not exist and they had the dead links removed. Object has also done a second up date to find new links for the reports that were dead so now I intend to look at what after all the time trying to help them that links had died we see what they now think is relevant.

So at the top of list is that joke of a report by Julie Bindel which has been commented on here and here.

The we have the Mindy Bradley report which focuses on the poor and women of colour working in American Clubs which as we know have a different set of rules. Importantly she is not worried about women overall just a specific demographic in the industry.

We still have the report It’s just like going to the Supermarket: Men buying sex in East London which is a study on street prostitution in Tower Hamlets. Having read the report there is nothing referring to sex in clubs just a vague passing reference to the fact that some men who go to SEVs may pay for an Escort. Interestingly they do not comment on the number of men who may not and given how the sample was obtained by adverts in papers the response would be tainted by the type of person who would respond to that.

Okay Holsopple I have said before and will say again the report has no relevance to SEVs in the UK in 2014 but as Lilith is dead they have to hold on to this to try for the claims of violence.

Now on to the Industrial Vagina by Sheila Jefferies, which merges so many arguments that the message is all adult entertainment is wrong. Having not read the book don't know what she says about UK SEVs though. However not expecting much reference at all to the current UK position.

The next two links both go to a page on Spinifex that has nothing to do with Striptease, guess someone didn't check their page editing.

And on again to Raphael and Shapiro dealing with the violence of prostitution in America. Still can't see the relevance to the clubs but there is this desperate attempt to link violence to SEVs even though the figures show that this is not the case.

Scottish Executive report which is the rehash of the disaster that in Bindel's 2004 "work" (and I use the word work in the loosest possible terms). Reads a bit better given the quality of its foundation.

Next is suppose to be a link to work by Rebecca Stark next but links to an ethics book on Prostitution and Pornography which is a moral judgement if it is the work they meant.

Finally Jennifer K. Wesley work in West Florida dealing with dancers who were/are abused, but doesn't identify the percentage of dancers who have this issue and thus implies it is the whole industry. Standard practice to create an image by using specific target research data to create a squiffy view of the industry. And of course this is Florida so we can see how it applies to the UK.

To be honest it looks like Object are not really any better off and the whole of the UK argument hinges on the appalling work by Bindel. The rest is an attempt to imply violence and prostitution inside UK SEVs. So even after removing the car crash that was Lilith the page still  has all sorts of rubbish with no relevance to today's clubs.

TonyN (


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  2. hey long time no see! I have been banned two times from mumsnet for the reason that they weren't happy with me criticizing them on this blog (more like they didn't like me challenging their views). I haven't posted on there for over a year now but occasionally have a look to see if anything is going on. It seems really dead over there these days, with not a lot of debating, just 5 or 6 of the rad fem regulars with their usual rantings. Sausage who is an excellent poster who I totally agree with, seems to be the only remaining person from the opposition who has not been banned from over there. By doing this and trying to shut-down debate they have really isolated themselves, making it easier for them to be written off as a few extremists who are not worth the time of day. They really have shot themselves in the foot. Oh well!

    1. Yeah mumsnet has it's own set of rules including a reasonable feminist who is pretty unreasonable. It seems that the idea of throwing 10,000 women under the bus is fine so long as the end result is what they want and it doesn't matter who they partner with to get there. So not too worried about what they say. And if Sausage asks about anything happy to swap mails to explain an alternative view.

  3. yeah i remember actually saying to that regular that she didn't live up to her name, she certainly isn't very reasonable and has definitely got worse over time and become more radical. I would be interested to ask Sausage to pose the question to the mumsnet regulars as to why they felt the need to ban virtually all the men who posted there with opposing views and what they think they are really achieving? It's funny how none of them ever venture over here, although they have got a safety in numbers dynamic going on, so maybe they don't have the confidence to go it alone over here.

    Changing the subject, I see that Spearmint's flagship London club has lost it's licence. Quite surprised to see one of the big players facing the chop. Will be interesting to see if they go to court over it and fare any better:

    1. I am wary of pushing an agenda onto someone who has got their own opinion and is at least willing to listen to arguments rather than the mumsnet Rhetoric. Pushing questions about banning may get her banned so best just to let her debate as she sees fit. She certainly is a lot more experienced at it than I ever was.

      Seen the SPMR issue but wanted to do some digging into the characters as two have been mentioned on the previous issue SPMR had. I was hoping to connect dots between certain parties. If I do then I will right a big piece if not I will comment when I next do a round up (probably when I read Tower Hamlets minutes early next week),

  4. No you are right, it wouldn't be fair. I would also say she is far better at speaking over there than myself, being far more eloquent and composed than i could ever be with those type of posters. It looks like that thread has disappeared now anyway. In other news i see that Warwick District Council are running a consultation on SEV's. Hopefully Shades will ask there customers to fill it in, as i just know the anti mob will be out in force with them checking the Nil cap box!