tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post7465096840366451859..comments2024-03-29T10:01:48.718+00:00Comments on Stripping The Illusion: Dancers Speak Out - Full ReportChasmalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15791910774345073277noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-15724326665308710222012-04-24T07:25:12.438+01:002012-04-24T07:25:12.438+01:00Thank you for your comment...
If I recall correct...Thank you for your comment...<br /><br />If I recall correctly, Tower Hamlets Council are expressing the view that nowhere in the borough is suitable for clubs....This may be the weakness in their argument.Chasmalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15791910774345073277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-25609140335764541602012-04-24T04:29:39.276+01:002012-04-24T04:29:39.276+01:00Chasmal - not if he can recall when the Governent ...Chasmal - not if he can recall when the Governent during the passage of the Bill might have indicated what is occurring was not their intentions. Otherwise needle in a haystack.<br /><br />Once pointer for you. I recall the statutory guidance, which councils must have regard to, that they couldn't designate their whole council area, they had to look place to place and judge their individual characteristics. Does TH consultation paper do this? Is it reasonable to assume that all areas of TH are no go areas for strip clubs? (the test of reasonableness is key in public law)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-70874867056866776612012-04-23T17:30:07.114+01:002012-04-23T17:30:07.114+01:00I take your point, but at the same time hope that ...I take your point, but at the same time hope that John McDonnells words have substance. In terms of getting the evidence that can be used in court, I think that's down to us...Chasmalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15791910774345073277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-55659492920358640552012-04-23T01:19:49.029+01:002012-04-23T01:19:49.029+01:00Sorry to say the MP is wrong. What is happening is...Sorry to say the MP is wrong. What is happening is exactly the intention of Harriet Harman, Jacqui Smith and Denis Mcshane who sponsored the legislation. The trouble is with MPs who sit on Bill Committees they don't properly scrutinise Bills and just vote the way Govt whips tell them to. An Early Day Motion won't do no good; there are tens of those per day and who will sign it. If he says it wasn't the intention the Bill to be implemented in this way, well, his time is better spent finding the evidence for that which can be used in court.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-76172140750595775912012-04-23T00:02:47.459+01:002012-04-23T00:02:47.459+01:00Their portrayal of strippers as victims of people-...Their portrayal of strippers as victims of people-trafficking is particularly absurd, and seems to be driven chiefly by the amount of funding that issue attracts.The Great Smell Of Brutehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18221303070617233589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-76083080311394966352012-04-23T00:00:16.882+01:002012-04-23T00:00:16.882+01:00I agree that we shouldn't allow ourselves to b...I agree that we shouldn't allow ourselves to be sidetracked towards issues other than the campaign to close strip clubs, but I have an interest in DV statistics and the way in which the issue has been gendered, hence my response re Object's stance on the subject.<br /><br />Curiously enough (and with no small irony), it was an article in the Guardian about a study pointing out that year on year, an average of about 40% of reported incidents of DV are committed by women on male partners, which prompted me to look further into the way in which the issue is usually portrayed. And it's very telling that the Metropolitan Police's latest campaign re DV was pointedly gender-neutral.The Great Smell Of Brutehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18221303070617233589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-68212680984890739752012-04-22T21:30:30.629+01:002012-04-22T21:30:30.629+01:00I have undertaken very little research into Domest...I have undertaken very little research into Domestic Violence, apart from to satisfy myself that no one linked strip clubs to it. I spent a good day looking at specialist sites on the subject and found no links. It is about control freak behaviour and I agree that abusers would have no interest because they have no control in the club environment.<br /><br />I am happy to explore Objects motivations for their club campaign, but want to avoid being drawn into a wider debate because this blog is about clubs and fighting the campaigns against them. Researching the underlying causes of DV is something that Object could and should do, but didn't because all they cared about was generating profile...Chasmalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15791910774345073277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-7673966820873567452012-04-22T21:19:24.250+01:002012-04-22T21:19:24.250+01:00I would urge caution in promoting stats about half...I would urge caution in promoting stats about half of DV victims being male. I haven't looked into it but I suspect that you will find a difference between the total reported incidents (i.e. drunken domestics), to the really serious sustained cases of domestic violence that is a justified cause for public concern, which is surely primarily a male on female phenomenon. Needs further research, we don't want to fall into a Lillith trap. <br /><br />However, the point is where is the evidence or logic that DV has got anything to do with strip clubs. it only makes sense within the Object conspiracy theory but mainstream DV charities are buying it. Their logic is if men see women as objects then that is what makes men think it OK to cause harm to women. As far as I'm concerned the kind of guy who is willing to control and abuse a woman is not going to spend his hard earned cash appreciating femenine beauty in an environment he can't control. I would imagine that that kind of animal would hate strip clubs. The challenge to our opponents needs to be about the logic of supposed cause and effect rather than on statistics.tonester72noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-6177830829766951212012-04-21T22:26:36.926+01:002012-04-21T22:26:36.926+01:00Ok, so I said I was going to take a break, then my...Ok, so I said I was going to take a break, then my Object parody started to appear in my mind....see my latest posting.<br /><br />Have a nice weekend.Chasmalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15791910774345073277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-17313839336829165932012-04-21T18:31:02.637+01:002012-04-21T18:31:02.637+01:00The issue with Object (or one of the issues at lea...The issue with Object (or one of the issues at least) is that they seem to be grandstanding and leech onto issues that they themselves define as being critical. Which has just given me such a power analogy of what they are doing that will explain the absurdity of their stance, that I intend to blog about it. <br /><br />People its time for an Object parody.....Chasmalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15791910774345073277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-3030854141744710392012-04-21T18:13:26.773+01:002012-04-21T18:13:26.773+01:00Point taken, I retract the previous statement. The...Point taken, I retract the previous statement. There is absolutely nothing positive about Object. And I feel more comfortable with that.Maddiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00711626354073374874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-82278712506714765992012-04-21T15:30:05.363+01:002012-04-21T15:30:05.363+01:00And whilst on the subject of DV, Object's publ...And whilst on the subject of DV, Object's public stance is also hypocritical, because their campaign against strip clubs has also brought them into alliance with the kind of religious conservatives who advocate the physical 'punishment' of women by their husbands and fathers.The Great Smell Of Brutehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18221303070617233589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-26013708367975630812012-04-21T15:24:17.252+01:002012-04-21T15:24:17.252+01:00There's only one point of your post on which I...There's only one point of your post on which I'd disagree: Object's stance on domestic violence, because they attempt to gender the issue, when in reality there are almost as many male victims of female partners as there are female victims of male partners. If you want a view on this from an expert, I suggest that you put 'Erin Pizzey' into Google and read what she has to say about the manner in which rad-fems have hijacked DV in the name of their ideological misandry.The Great Smell Of Brutehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18221303070617233589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-45240398900630169882012-04-21T11:06:06.310+01:002012-04-21T11:06:06.310+01:00The Catch-22 reference says it all. It is quite te...The Catch-22 reference says it all. It is quite terrifying that some feminists are now resorting to this tactic in order to discredit the valid views of the dancers. I am not a feminist. The important work done in the past to get laws changed and ensure equal gender rights means I don't have to be, and credit to the women who fought for generations to ensure I can live and work in a world where I won't be penalised for my gender.<br />Unfortunately the post-feminist society seems to offer no focus for those who still want to fight some sort of personal moral crusade against men, and they are now turning inwards and attacking other women who choose to work in a profession that feminists deem to be morally corrupt. (I may begin suggesting that the opinions of feminists fighting against strip clubs are highly suspect because so many are clearly in denial of the effect they are having on other women's livelihoods and therefore they can't really call themselves feminists.)<br />I'm also not a dancer, but I have friends who are, and friends who aren't dancers but also have friends who are, and other friends who are feminists but still have no problem with dance clubs. There are layers upon layers of women who don't feel threatened by dance clubs, don't go to them but know someone who does, or someone who works in one, and generally see them as a place of entertainment, expression and enjoyment that we are all free to work in if we CHOOSE to. I have a really good friend who has a pole in her dining room for exercise purposes. If she chooses to dance in a provocative manner in her own home for a man, if that subjugating her? I'd like to see a member of Object or the Solent Feminist Network suggest that to her, because she also used to be a champion kick-boxer and worked as nightclub security for years (the joys of equality). <br />It's the voices of women like her, as well as those of the dancers, that are starting to be heard now, and starting to threaten the current feminist campaign against other women's jobs. The work Object do to protect women from domestic violence and other obvious violations is clearly worthwhile, but this campaign against dance clubs is deplorable and disgusting to all level headed clear thinking women the world over, and Object need to be held accountable for the women they are putting out of work.Maddiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00711626354073374874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-57179924238480195842012-04-20T17:00:03.525+01:002012-04-20T17:00:03.525+01:00It was certainly an encouraging meeting, and your ...It was certainly an encouraging meeting, and your report on it covers all of the major issues which were discussed there.<br /><br />I'd disagree with you on one point though: away from the mainstream media (and the Guardian in particular, which appears to be championing Object), the tide of opinion started to turn against the prohibition of striptease over six months ago, when attempts to stifle the debate and present the 'nil' policy in Tower Hamlets as a fait accompli backfired on councillors, Object and the other small pressure groups that were in favour of imposing it. What's more, the prohibitionists have ended up looking very shifty as a result of some of their campaigning activities...<br /><br />It's notable that, since the end of the consultation period in Tower Hamlets, some other local authorities in the UK have decided that exploring the possibility of a 'nil' policy was a waste of public money, whilst a couple of London boroughs which were thinking of imposing a total ban have felt the need to adopt a more cautious approach to any proposed change in licensing policy.The Great Smell Of Brutehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18221303070617233589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-61465417932958558922012-04-20T10:30:20.203+01:002012-04-20T10:30:20.203+01:00I hoped that I wasn't exagerating when I said ...I hoped that I wasn't exagerating when I said this report would be worth waiting for. When a prominent MP and a powerful union condemn the prohibitionists, I think it is safe to say that things are now swinging our way.<br /><br />Thank you for joining in on the comments...<br /><br />ChasmalChasmalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15791910774345073277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-8520018073012836272012-04-20T09:42:02.056+01:002012-04-20T09:42:02.056+01:00Chasmal,
Thank you for this account. It is probab...Chasmal, <br />Thank you for this account. It is probably the most important single item in your excellent blog. It should be required reading for any "concerned citizens" who want to truly understand this industry and the issues surrounding it. The MP's point about parliament's original intention is an important one especially if Tower Hamlets' (or anywhere else's) policy ends up in Court.tonester72noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2169454082586985027.post-52471884898215658152012-04-20T09:20:58.661+01:002012-04-20T09:20:58.661+01:00Have to say in a lot of ways I want Tower Hamlets ...Have to say in a lot of ways I want Tower Hamlets to try and impose a Nil Policy. Once it is ripped apart in the courts then the Nil Policies already in place around the Country will be worth less than the paper they are written on. However the scaremongering of Object has been challenged and will continue to be challenged anywhere it is found especially on line. <br /><br />The more Object upset people the more people that will rise against them. And in General it is Object and their small group of associated feminist networks that are trying to get councils to enforce nil policies.<br /><br />I do hope that unison as a union tells it branches that supporting Object is not a good thing as it is trying make women unemployed. Be nice to see the supporters list for Object shrink and if GMB wrote to Unison perhaps they can encourage branches to remove support from Object. This would also be nice to take the union aspect away from Charlie Dacke in Portsmouth.TonyNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03800609393064987221noreply@blogger.com